On this episode of All the Things, COO + CMBDO Robyn Addis chats with Intapp’s Lavinia Calvert about her company’s WIN Initiative — an internal program focused on developing, growing, and promoting strong connections for women and allies across the organization. Robyn recently spoke to the group about her #FollowFriday conference and her passion for building a professional female network across the career ladder.

  

Robyn:

Lavinia, thank you so much for being here with me today. I’m thrilled to have you on our podcast.

Lavinia:

It’s an absolute pleasure, Robyn. Great to see you today.

Robyn:

So, I had the pleasure of being a guest at the Intapp Women’s Interest Network speaker series recently at your invitation, and I was so honored for you to invite me, which inspired me to invite you onto our podcast today to talk a little bit about WIN and what it is and the type of community that you’re building at Intapp within the network and what your goals are. So I’m just curious if you could tell our audience, what is Intapp’s Women’s Interest Network and what is the group’s purpose or goals?

Lavinia:

So, the WIN initiative is something that started a couple of years ago. It’s really about building a community of support, encouragement, upliftment for women at Intapp, but it’s not just women that are part of the network. It involves anyone in the company that wants to be a participant in that. And its primary purpose really is to champion the voice of women inside the organization to provide professional development opportunities for women in the organization, to provide mentors and a mentoring program to support women’s growth in the organization, and generally just to provide a great community to provide a level of recognition and support that wasn’t there prior to the building of this initiative.

Robyn:

Where did this grow out of? Was there a conversation at a high executive level? Was it something that was started maybe at the grassroots level? Do you even know where it sort of was born from?

Lavinia:

A little bit of both. So predominantly, I would say it was a grassroots initiative, and that’s one of the things that makes me really pleased about it getting off the ground in the way that it has is because it wasn’t a case of, we must do this because we think we should, it was a case of let’s create this community and let’s get some executive support for it and let’s just see where we can take it.

And so a lot of the drive and the initiative for the programs and the different initiatives that we run as part of the Women’s Interest Network have been driven by people, early-stage career folk that have joined the company, maybe even less than six months ago, and there’s a whole group of us now that just do a lot of the work behind the scenes to make sure that it continues to grow. So a bit of both. It gets a lot of executive support, but it’s mostly run day to day by the people who are super, super passionate about building out this community.

Robyn:

That’s awesome. And I agree with you, I think even with the best of intentions when things are sort of pushed down from the top level, it doesn’t necessarily always gain the momentum, but when it starts at the grassroots level and it’s really driven by the people who want to see it succeed, I think that’s when it has the best impact. So I think that’s great that it has support from both ends, but it’s really driven at a grassroots level is fantastic. So, tell us a little bit about the speaker series. What types of speakers are you bringing in, other than yours truly? And what is the purpose of it?

Lavinia:

So the speaker series is one of the first initiatives that was created off the back of the creation of the Women’s Interest Network sort of governance group, if you like. We have a couple of co-chairs, we have people that volunteer their time and effort to drive and lead certain initiatives, and the speaker series was really born, again, from the group, determining that they would like to hear from other women in leadership roles or on their way in their career in some interesting industry or role and what they could learn from them. So we’ve had a range of different speakers and they all have brought amazing insights and shared their experiences of things that they’ve learned as women in leadership roles, and not necessarily only in leadership roles, but women in professional careers.

And it serves a couple of purposes. One is to inspire the group to learn from others because we’re all learning collectively from the experiences that we share. And the second is education, so to open people’s eyes and minds and hearts to what’s possible these days. And I think back to my early stage career, we had nothing like this. When I first started working male-dominated environments, there was no forum or community to learn necessarily, and we didn’t have formalized things like mentor programs and matching. So I think the speaker series is really great, because it’s bringing to the fore successful women who have a story to share, who are not afraid to be themselves, as you were totally authentic with our audience, and thank you for that, it was amazing. But it’s just a learning opportunity and a sharing opportunity to inspire and uplift.

Robyn:

Yeah, it just hit me when you were speaking, when you were starting out in your career, early on in your career, you didn’t have the opportunity to do something like this. And I think that many women would say the same thing. And many women, at any stage of their career, even some women probably early on in their career don’t always have access to this kind of opportunity. And the more that all of us can create chances for anybody in our community to see what the possibilities are, we don’t know what we don’t know, and to see what the paths are, how sometimes the path that we think we’re setting out on, when we go into college or in our early s is not at all the path we end up on by the time or, whatever into our career. So I think even just exposing people to that is, if nothing else, super interesting and valuable.

So, am I remembering this correctly? Alexa, on your team, I think was sharing with me, did you have somebody who was a rocket scientist as a speaker too? Am I completely making that up?

Lavinia:

We’ve had a whole range of speakers and I leave it to the team to determine who they want to come speak. I mean Jennifer Richard, who’s my co-executive sponsor, she and I have a little oversight over the speakers that we bring in because that’s our role, but we want to make sure that we’re having a good experience across the company and that it’s relevant and valid for the purpose that we are seeking to fulfill there. So yeah, Alexa and the team have had some really interesting speakers, people at early stage career, people that are sort of C-level, people like yourself who are doing amazing things beyond your day job. There’s been a bunch.

Robyn:

That’s awesome. And I will say, I was prepped for this before joining the session that it was going to be really well attended, that it’s easily to  people who join in, which I think is really impressive for an organization of any size to have that many people who are interested in taking time out of their day to focus on this type of content is really impressive. And I think that shows an organizational commitment to it, but also, I was very heartwarmed. I don’t know if that’s the right term, but I was very just excited to see the number of men that were participating and were engaged. I would look around the virtual meeting room and they were paying attention. They weren’t just in there to check a box. They were really listening, which was kind of exciting to see. Everybody was engaged, which was awesome.

Lavinia:

Yeah, absolutely. And by the way, the men that you saw on there, they’re all amazing men. They’re supporting women. Many of them are leading teams with women in them. They are mentoring women. They uplift women. I mean there are a couple that I’ve singled out in recent, I was interviewed for an internal communications, but a couple that I’ve singled out where, to me they role model to others who may not necessarily be as overt in their support, they’re role modeling. Just by turning up, they’re role modeling, aren’t they? So it warmed my heart to see so many on that call as well.

Robyn:

Yeah, it was awesome. And also tell our audience about how you extend the conversation, because I think this is very, very cool what you do. So you have the session and then what happens next?

Lavinia:

Okay. So a couple of things happen. The committee, the volunteer group that run the WIN initiatives across the board, and that’s Raquel and Katie and others and Alexa and the whole team, they get together, they’ll have a debrief. And then we have a Knowledge Knuggets, spelled with K in both cases, a Knowledge Knuggets, which is kind of a writeup of the learnings and extension of the conversation and the discourse. And we also have a thriving Teams channel where anyone can join it, anyone can post their comments, anyone can share articles, ideas, thoughts, reflections on a speaker series or anything else for that matter on that channel. So, we try and keep the community going. All of it is entirely optional and voluntary. There’s no, “Hey, you have to report back by a certain time,” or anything like that. The community is the community because people want to be there and engage.

Robyn:

Yeah, that’s the heart of success in something like that, it has to be something authentic that people want to be a part of. So, as you think about things like the WIN initiative, how do you see frameworks of recognition and support transforming, whether it’s Intapp’s workplace culture or how can it transform workplace culture for people who are able to establish something like that?

Lavinia:

So my personal perspective on this is that this goes straight to the heart of leadership, and that is that culture is the responsibility of all of us, but in particular the behaviors and the outward expression of our values and our everyday interactions with our colleagues, whether we’re part of a team having a one-on-one conversation, on a meeting where we have an opportunity to provide some recognition. I think all of those are important moments of truth where we can make a choice about how we bring that recognition.

I think a framework, I’m interested to know what your thought process is around the use of that particular term, but for me it’s a combination of being both organic and authentic in how you bring recognition to those around you. And also having a more formal framework, if you like, promotional framework, career progression, et cetera, feedback series and so on. Is that where you were going with the question?

Robyn:

Well, framework might be not the correct term, although so I’ll give you a professional example. So on our team here at LISI, we have a bi-weekly team meeting and the kickoff to that meeting is always a positive focus. Sometimes that’s a personal positive focus, our intention for the day or the week or what’s keeping us going. And sometimes it’s a way to recognize others, but even just sharing, whether for ourselves or about somebody else, sharing what’s going on and what’s our motivation or driver forward is a great way to intentionally bring our authentic selves into our day-to-day life.

And framework, framework’s not the right term, but just in a less formal way, forming the habit of positive accolades. How do we put into our daily practice of running into one another in the hall and saying, “Hey, you did a great job. Hey, I know that you’re trying really hard, that email was great. Thanks so much for giving a shout-out to my team member because she or he really needed that.” Framework’s not the right word in that context, but it’s like, how do you form the habit of it on a small scale and bring that into the big scale?

Lavinia:

Yeah. And I really love that you do that, and so understand the context in which you use that word and it works. The other thing that I was thinking of in response to this is a lot of this is role modeling. And I think if we can learn to be habitually open and transparent and to be looking for opportunities to provide that recognition and support, in group contexts in particular, then that starts to drive culture because you’re showing others how it’s done.

And I can give a couple of examples. When I worked in-house, we ran a year long project, which was designed to do a couple of things. It was designed to improve the entire client experience across the entire journey, this was inside a law firm, so it was a big change program, but it also was designed to ensure that we were, in every touchpoint with our clients, manifesting in our behavior the expression of our values as a firm. And we used a technique back then, which you’ve just took me onto this, we used a technique called appreciative inquiry. And my lay expression of what appreciative inquiry involves is, you always start with something positive and what’s working, it becomes self-reinforcing, it’s very collaborative, you play your strengths, you are very inclusive in the way that you generate solutions to problems. And I think that kind of framework or method is so helpful when it comes to culture.

And just to close out the example that I gave, after months of involving everyone in the firm, I mean everyone, from the receptionist to the most senior tenured partners, and we mashed up the groups. There was no choice about, “I’m only going to talk to partners.” We had lots of activity over that -month period, our employee engagement improved by double digits in one year. And so it shows you that when you start with the positives and inclusion and generating ideas collaboratively across a team, you can really create a difference and transform your culture, to go back to the original question. And I think a lot of that is about being intentional about behavior, about what you’re trying to achieve, and role modeling along the way and looking for those opportunities, you have to be intentional about it, otherwise it won’t happen.

Robyn:

Yeah, it’s funny, I’m going to go on a tangent for a second, but I think about this with my kids. So my husband’s very polite, very, very kind person. And so he’s always the kind of gentleman who’s going to go hold the door for anybody or offer help to somebody if he thinks they need it or something. And when you talk about role modeling, I immediately think of, now I watch my kids who have seen him do this, hopefully, I’m doing it too, but who have seen him doing these things and they do it without even thinking about it, right? They just do these little things that, I’m of course very proud of them for doing as their mom, but just makes them good citizens, good community members.

And it’s the same concept in a work environment. And what I think is really important about it, and I think this is the heart of what you’re saying, is that it actually just creates a more positive experience overall, a more engaging, a more welcoming, inclusive environment because the littlest, the tiniest little things and coming from a positive place and a collaborative place just changes the feeling, just changes the temperature in the room. You know what I mean?

Lavinia:

It totally does. And I say that we need to be intentional, I genuinely mean that. I think that as leaders, as role models in any organizational context, or in fact in any personal context, one of my favorite sayings is the Maya Angelou saying around, people remember you for how you made them feel, not what you said. And so I think every moment that we have an opportunity to express who we are as individuals in our daily interactions is so important, because that is what’s creating the perception of you as a leader, as an individual, as a human being. And whether it’s just a little outreach because you saw somebody do something really great and you just want to send them a quick Teams message or something to acknowledge it, or you publicly recognize a great effort in a group setting is so important, not in a manufactured contrived way, but so important to call things out when you see it.

And I think it creates that sense of team and that sense of harmony that we all really strive for and thrive on. I think no one thrives in a toxic environment. No one. Businesses don’t. It’s really simple. And I’m sure we’ve all been in situations where we’ve felt uncomfortable and therefore not brought our best because either we don’t feel safe or it’s not that kind of vibe or whatever the answer is. It’s just culture is intentional, it has to be, and it’s all our jobs.

Robyn:

Yes. And I hope that this doesn’t sound like I’m trying to give a roundabout compliment to myself, but I think it’s intentional and it’s also about authenticity. So I’ve said this to you before, I said this during speaking engagement, intentionally practicing authenticity so that it becomes our natural state, right? I like to say, I’m always who I am in every situation. Everybody knows what they’re getting. I’m very open, a kind of open book. But what I hope that that does, in being intentionally authentic and trying to come from a positive place, is that I am creating a space where people feel that they can also be their true selves. Because you talk about, nobody thrives in a toxic environment, it doesn’t even have to be toxic, and there are plenty of toxic environments that can exist, but it also just has to be a place where people don’t feel comfortable.

And that’s a very fine line between authenticity and how quickly it can tip over into, “Ooh, I don’t know if I can speak up here.” So the more that we as leaders, I’m going to bring it full circle, the more that we as leaders can intentionally create a space where people feel safe to be authentic and safe to be open, I think the better the culture can be coming out of that.

Lavinia:

Yeah, I mean I’d give you a really good example. And by the way, I so value your authenticity, and I think I told you that after your presentation, but be yourself, because that shows people, it’s just so important. Life’s too short for us to be anything other than ourselves, bring our whole selves.

Robyn:

Yes. And a different example, one of the things that Alexa and I talked about, that my friends and I talk about, other women leaders. I think we as women, and it’s not just women, but I think in particular women sometimes are a little bit apprehensive about speaking up in a meeting if they don’t know something or if they don’t understand something. And so, having the confidence and authenticity to just say, “I’m sorry, hold on a second. What are we talking about?” Or, “I don’t understand this thing that you just said.” Or, “What are we trying to accomplish?” Or whatever the question is. And we are being authentically true to who we are and it goes back to role modeling. It’s showing other people that it’s okay to be vulnerable and to not know everything, to not have all the answers, to just reach out because business and everything is about human connection. All of those are things that I think are so important for us to role model and for us as leaders to exemplify.

And I’m going to actually take it back to the conversation, it just dawned on me, to the conversation after the talk that I gave. There was a young woman whose name I can’t remember, but she’s maybe mid s I assume, based on her question, just, how do you bring your authentic self to work? What is too far? What’s not far enough? How do you figure that out? And I think my response was along the lines of, “You got to try it and see what happens.” Don’t go off the rails to something wildly inappropriate, but you kind of know where that is, and every work culture is a little bit different.

But then the other thing is what you and I, in particular, have the benefit of is experience and age and whatever, with the age comes wisdom or so on and so forth. And so because we have those experiences of seeing that being our authentic self and being true and vulnerable is a positive thing and it can create a positive environment, we can role model that and exemplify it for young women like this person so they understand how to live it and improve upon it moving forward too.

I am now on a soapbox because I’m so excited about what we’re talking about. This is what I do. I get so excited about the topic, I could just ramble.

Lavinia:

You and me both, my friend. Yes. And one of the things that I’ve reflected on a few times over the last few years, and I think especially the years when we were all online doing virtual back-to-back Zoom or Teams calls, is it’s kind of a little self-criticism. I would sit on calls. I would have, in many cases, strong opinions about what was being discussed, but if you don’t speak up when you need to, you miss your opportunity. So my point was that you have to find your time to say something. Don’t be afraid to speak up when you get your time to. Don’t do what I’ve done many times and have a side chat with somebody else expressing the opinion that you should really express on the group.

Those cases where we might be on a large group setting in a call, usually if it’s a virtual call, it’s just a little habit of mine that I picked up on. I’m like, “No, I have to speak up. I have to take my opportunity. I have to find a way, in appropriate time.” And sometimes it’s difficult to do that. First of all, culturally, I’m not maybe as assertive as some of my colleagues, just the New Zealand way is a little more humble and a little more sort of sit back and wait for everybody to have their say. But I’ve had to learn, candidly, and working for a predominantly American company that if you want to have a voice at the table, you actually have to use it and bring it.

And to your point, even if you feel like what you’re about to say is going to be less than perfectly eloquent or might make you sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about, say it anyway, because there’s no point in sitting behind the scenes and thinking afterwards, “Oh, I should have spoken up.” We all have valid, valuable contributions to make.

Robyn:

Yes. Again, I’ll give you my own personal example of that. I got a compliment once from the Chief Information Officer at the last firm I worked at who said I’m really good at calling BS on things, and this was the best compliment I’ve ever gotten. And the reason was because it’s not because I understood everything that everybody on her team was doing. I’m not an IT professional, but I would speak up, ask the question if I didn’t understand or something didn’t make sense to me, when so many people, because something like IT can feel like a, I don’t know, a very behind the veil kind of situation. You don’t know what all the technical blah, blah, blah is of something, but I was able to forge good relationships with the people in IT because I was very transparent about the fact that I had no idea what it took to do their job every day, but I would ask the questions and speak up.

It’s a less significant, I think, kind of example of what you’re saying, but I think it applies to everybody, right? You have to speak up when you have the opportunity because either you have to be authentically yourself and take the opportunity, or you have to speak up when you have the opportunity because it’s the way to make sure that you can have the business relationships that actually make progress and make an impact in your organization in ways big and small. I keep giving these colloquial less significant counters to what you’re saying. You’re offering these truly deep and personal examples.

Lavinia:

It’s all valid experience. It’s all valid filtering of our own personal experience and the conversation.

Robyn:

Yes, agreed. So I think we have some very strong takeaways from this conversation, Lavinia. I think we’ve got be true, be authentic, and create a safe environment for people to show up and be authentic. Role model authenticity and inclusion. Be an active listener. One of my questions was going to be, but I think we’ve answered it. One of my questions was going to be, what’s our advice for how to help empower women and how to create these environments in our workplaces and more broadly? But I really do feel like we’ve answered that.

But I guess if we just want to give one last piece of advice to our audience, to our listeners, if you could give one piece of advice to a person, male, female, anything, if they want to make a positive impact in their community, what’s the first step that they could take? Where can they start?

Lavinia:

Dip that toe in the water and do things from a place of what fuels your heart and soul.

Robyn:

I couldn’t agree more. It’s the same thing I say, which is start somewhere. If you’re going to start, start somewhere. Find someplace to just dip that toe in. I agree with you.

Well, thank you so much for being on this podcast. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for inviting me to speak to the Women’s Interest Network initiative. It was a really rewarding and special experience. So thank you so much for that. Thanks for being on to tell our audience about the initiative, and I know I’m going to see you and talk to you again soon, so it’s not goodbye, it’s, I’ll see you soon.