Lost in a sea of digital marketing options? Not sure if organic or paid searches are working for you…or what that even means? We’re here to help! LISI’s Founder and CEO Jason Lisi, and Director of Marketing Technology + Operations, Dan Martin, answer all your burning questions on this month’s Ask Me Anything: S.E.O. + S.E.M.

Taryn:

Hey everyone, welcome to May’s installment of Ask Me Anything where we will be discussing S.E.O. and S.E.M. So it’s a big topic, but I know there’ll be a lot of questions, there always are, and so we are excited to get to that, but first let’s do some introductions. Jason Lisi is the Founder and CEO of LISI, and he is on this livestream. Also, Dan Martin, the Director of Marketing Technology and Operations at LISI is on this livestream about S.E.O. and S.E.M. And I had so much fun doing the Three Things livestream on this topic a couple weeks ago that I said I wanted to crash and join them on this livestream. I’m Taryn Elliot, the Director of Client Success and Marketing at LISI. So it is a beautiful day here in Indianapolis and we are getting ready for the Grand Prix, which kicks off racing in Indiana in the month of May, before we get to the Indy 500. So I am hoping to get out to the track and maybe get to see some racing in Indiana. What are you guys up to this weekend?

Jason:

Well, it’s not quite as nice of a day in the Philadelphia area where Dan and I both are, and it’s raining, and I’m going to a race of a different kind. You know, they say that Indy cars have a horsepower of around 600 horsepower. I’m going to race of exactly one horsepower, I’m going to the Willowdale Steeplechase, which is one of our favorite events. It’s steeplechase season here in Chester County, and so we’ll be watching horses jump over things and hopefully keep their rider on. But yeah, much, much lower horsepower, so.

Taryn:

Well, I know this is a big topic. We’ve had a bunch of questions submitted already, I’m sure we’ll get more questions as we go along, so let’s go ahead and start answering the questions that we do have. And we’re gonna start with, I don’t wanna say an easy one, but probably the most obvious one, which is, you know, what is S.E.O.? Like, let’s kind of define that as we really get going here. So Jason, I will turn this over to you to answer that question.

Jason:

Okay. Well, search engine optimization, you know, and people use the term S.E.O. to cover different things, but in its most technical sense, search engine optimization is the process of optimizing your website, meaning, fixing your website and putting in certain codes, and you know, Dan and I can get much more granular on this, so that it plays nice with the search engines. So just very quickly, how search engines work. There’s three elements to a search engine. One is something called the crawler, okay? And that is a little software robot that Google sends out to a website and it reads everything it can see on the website, and see is important in the optimization part. So it’ll read the text on the page, it’ll read what is called the HTML, you know, the codes behind the page, and it’ll look for certain cues. It’ll crawl that whole thing, you know, they’re even used to, in the early days of search engines, and just, but by the way, I founded this company after practicing law in Philadelphia, and I founded it in 1998, and that right around the same time Google was founded. So I’ve been through this.

Yes, I was a major part in Google’s success. And so the idea is that, you know, I’ve been along this journey in learning about S.E.O. ever since it was a thing. So anyway, in the early days, even some of the alternate search engines, which are not around anymore, were even called web crawler, or you know, and they would have spiders as their, you know, little thing. Anyway, so it crawls the site, takes all the information, and then it goes and throws it into what is the second part of a search engine, which is called the index. So when you do a search on Google, you’re not really searching websites, you’re searching snapshots of websites that Google has kind of taken a snapshot of and brought it into its index, so you’re really searching the index. The third part of a search engine is what is called the algorithm. And the algorithm tries to match what you’ve put in the search box and bring you a relevant results.

So if you put in, hiking boots near me, okay, something like that, Google’s algorithm is pretty sure you’re looking to buy hiking boots in person, you know, somewhere near you, and so it’s gonna bring you localized results based on your IP address. But just think if you put in like the word, delta, just put in, delta, that’s it, does it mean the Greek letter? Does it mean the faucet company? Does it mean the airline? Does it mean, you know, the meaning of delta, you know, in terms of change and that type of thing? So the algorithm constantly changes and has other triggers to put relevant information, because Google attempts to, and you know, to an extent, Bing does too, but they have a tiny market share, that it attempts to match the items in the search with what your intention is. Does it get it right all the time? No, doesn’t, but it constantly changes things. So optimization is conforming your website to play nice with the search engines so that you can get your website ranked for the relevant terms for which you want to be ranked and will advance your business.

Dan:

Yeah, absolutely. I just was gonna say, to add on to that, it is a continual optimization effort, S.E.O. is a long game. It typically will take six months at minimum to see any significant changes in terms of ranking for your website. But it’s something that you should do, if not on a daily basis, if you have the capacity, at least be doing something towards S.E.O. weekly. Yeah.

Taryn:

Well, and we talk about S.E.O., and I think that’s a term most people are familiar with, or at least have heard, or have a general idea of, but I know one that seems to be newer to a lot of people is S.E.M. So one of our questions is what is S.E.M.? Can you guys define that and kind of share some information about what that is?

Dan:

Sure, yeah. This is kind of a strange term to me, ’cause I’m not entirely sure where it originated from, but in its most technical sense, as Jason defined S.E.O., search engine marketing really refers to paid advertising at the top of the search results. So I’m sure many of our listeners are familiar with doing a Google search, usually the first two results will be a paid advertisement. So that’s what search engine marketing is referred to. It is also more commonly known as pay per click advertising. So Jason and I, if we have a fictitious law firm, Martin-Lisi, and we want to pay to have our website show up, we can pay Google to show it in the Google ads top two sections of search results.

Jason:

And to make things more complicated, in the 23 years we’ve been doing this here, and I have seen people use the term S.E.O to refer to S.E.M., I’ve seen people use S.E.M. to refer to S.E.O., and I’ve also seen S.E.O. being used to encompass anything having to do with the search engine, local, organic, which is, you know, the part below the ad, below the maps to, you know, on the search pages. In the early days, when you looked at a Google search results page, and search engine results page, which sometimes is referred to as a SERP, S, E, R, P, out there, just for those of you doing your own research, it used to be very stark. At some point we should make up a graphic about this, ’cause I have screenshots from back in the day, it used to be the ads had a colored background and it was like pink or, or like mauve, or something like that. You could really see the ads and the map wasn’t even in there. I mean, I’ve been doing this so long, there weren’t even the ads at the beginning part, but you know, it used to be. And then they took away the background color and they had a big indication that it was an ad. And now they have shrunk the indication that it’s an ad to a little tiny graphic that says ad in a little, you know, little box.

Here’s why. Those ads that you see there and the ones that pop up on YouTube and other places, Google makes 90% of their money that way, and they make a lot of money. So the more that Google can have you click on the ad rather than the organic, which they make no money from, which is down below the maps, the better for them. So it’s getting less and less obvious what’s organic and what is paid. And I can, you know, from a very, you know, as a former practicing lawyer, we like to be very exact about language, but I can see the confusion out there. People are using S.E.O. to mean this or that, and they don’t know. And so educating about things, and you know, a partner or someone at your firm may come to you, if you’re in the marketing department and say, you know, we need some S.E.O. It’d be great to work and say, okay, so when you say S.E.O., tell me what you mean? I mean, I certainly know what it means, but tell me what you mean. And then, you know, because even now, it’s still an unknown catch phrase that people don’t really know about.

Taryn:

Well, and I think, you know, your point that we’ve been doing this for a while, but it changes and evolves so much on a constant basis that I think once people feel like they’ve grasped it, there’s something new, you know, they change how they do ads, or they bring snippets in, or whatever it is that, I think more so than a lot of things that we deal with in marketing, this is an area where people are needing to constantly educate themselves. It’s not like you learn it once and you’re done, and you know, there’s not any change for five years. It is, you know, constant, so it’s hard to keep up on some of those things.

So Dan, talk a little bit about some of the algorithm changes that have happened in the last few years.

Dan:

Yeah, I mean, there are honestly so many, it’s hard to keep up. There are some milestone ones known as Panda that have been out there. I think if I recall correctly, Google changed the algorithm over 100 times in 2021. So it’s constantly changing and it behooves you to set up some sort of analytics or tracking, you know, use Google Analytics at a minimum, just to make sure that, you know, you’re still getting traffic to your website when those rankings do change. And there are plenty of sites out there that you can keep tabs on those, such a Search Engine Journal, or Search Engine Roundtable that regularly put out, you know, oh, there’s a Google algorithm change, you know, just make sure you’re not losing rankings. It’s usually pretty good and not affecting drastically in terms of, you know, one day you’re ranking one in spot one, and then all of a sudden you’re off the page. It’s usually pretty good, you might move down a spot or so, but Google’s gotten very sophisticated, and to that point, they have a lot of machine learning and AI going on, which is why they change the algorithm so much.

Jason:

And it’s interesting that, well, first of all, some of the algorithm changes were following animal names starting with P, ’cause I know there was a Penguin.

Dan:

There was a Penguin, yes.

Jason:

And a Panda, and I think there were a few others that I can’t remember. But the idea of changing the algorithm has a lot of, and if you remember, the algorithm is the part that tries to match what you’ve put in the search bar to the results you get. And they’ve done that in reaction to a lot of people trying to game the system. Again, you know, I feel old when I say back in the day, but you know, back in the day it used to be pretty easy to get somebody on the first page. I mean, you would create lots of different duplicate content and you might create different websites with the same stuff on it, and all point, and everything like that. And then Google got really kind of hip to this type of thing, and then they started to discount duplicate content. So having the same content on several pages, that is clearly for search engine optimization, and by content, I mean long stretches of content, I don’t mean the company name or, you know, a lawyer name, or a practice area, I mean long stretches, paragraphs and paragraphs of identical content that are done to kind of game the system to get you ranked higher.

Or this thing that used to happen, we never did it, but I’ve read it from at least one main competitor in past years from us, it would be called keyword stuffing, right? And that would be, for instance, you’d come to a website and you’d see a sentence, like, if you are a resident of Doylestown with a personal injury problem, contact Doylestown personal injury lawyer, you know, John Smith for your Doylestown personal injury problem. They’re obviously trying to write it so they stuff Doylestown personal injury lawyer in the text so many times that it pops for that. Interesting things, some things like, and we can get into the kind of the more technical part, the meta tags of things, the keywords meta tag, it isn’t even used anymore, because it got of abused so much by people just stuffing keywords, and you’d see in the code, you know, long lists of keywords for all these different types of things. So Google and the other search engines all just said, nope, we’re out, you know, we’re not gonna do that one anymore. And really one of the main ones right now is the title tag. But you know, we’ve seen a lot of things. And so Google will change, and as soon as something happens again, you know, link farms, you know, those where you go buy a link pointing to your website, ’cause inbound links are generally good, but they have to be from a relevant websites. You know, when Google found out about those things, big companies, BMW, JCPenney, not such a big company anymore, but you know, would get dinged for just buying links at other places and just having them come in, and I mean in the hundreds of thousands of links, and it was clearly not an organic way that all these people wanted to point to JCPenney, you know, so that type of thing. That’s why Google changes the algorithm, because they want to present the most relevant and most trustworthy information on their results.

Taryn:

Well, you touched on keywords, which I know a lot of people have questions on. So Dan, do you wanna give us a little bit of background when we say keywords, what do we mean? How are they used? You know, are they important still? Are they not important?

Dan:

Yeah, absolutely. So keywords are one of the pillars of S.E.O. tactics and things that you use to optimize for your website. So keywords, at their most basic level, are the words or phrases that you would type into a search engine. So when Taryn is searching Indy car 500 in Google this weekend, that’s a keyword that your website might want to rank for. And so if, you know, back to the example of Jason and I’s fictitious law firm, you know, if we wanted to rank for say, divorce attorney, that would be a keyword that we’d be targeting. So we might write a practice area page about our divorce or family law practice with, you know, sprinkling in that keyword. We might write blog piece called, you know, how to choose your divorce attorney or something like that. So keywords are really, you know, are a key pillar and a key strategy piece for SEO, and you definitely want to craft your content around keywords that are relevant to your business.

Taryn:

And how do you use keywords for S.E.O. and, you know, S.E.M. or pay per click? Like, is it the same thing or are they two different things?

Dan:

So they’re two different things. So when we were just talking about writing content on a practice area page or writing a blog post, that’s more geared towards the SEO piece of it, right? We’re trying to get organic lift on our blog post or, you know, our service page. And when we’re talking about keywords in relationship to pay per click advertising or P.P.C., you would go into a Google ads or a Bing ads and say, okay, I want my website to show up when somebody types in, divorce attorney, and then the cost per click, which is how much it costs when somebody clicks on that might be $8. I’m sure it’s actually probably much higher than that, ’cause legal terms tend to cost a lot more. But it might be $8. So, you know, you would say, okay, you might set a budget of, I’m gonna spend $100 a day, I’m willing to spend that much money a day. And anytime Taryn would click on that in Google, we would get charged that $8 or whatever the cost per click is. So that’s kind of the key difference. In pay per click, you’re actually signing up to pay for those keywords, in S.E.O., you’re trying to generate organic traffic to your website and just trying to write content and craft content around those keywords.

Jason:

And here’s where both organic and pay per click can support each other, Google over the past, I would say probably 10 years, has started, when you do a search in Google, especially if you’re using Google Chrome, has begun to make anonymous your searches, okay? You actually have to deselect sending that information within your Google account. So if you’re logged into your Google account and you put in say, divorce attorney Conshohocken, okay? For those of you not around Philadelphia, Conshohocken is a suburb of Philadelphia. Divorce attorney Conshohocken, if you’re logged into Google, Google will, I mean, they’ll see it, but they won’t report it in Google analytics, so it’ll be, I think the term is, it used to be not shared or not, I can’t remember what it is now, Dan, but.

Dan:

I think it says, not set now.

Jason:

Yeah, not set. Anyway, you won’t see that. However, on pay per click, remember, that’s how Google makes their money, on pay per click, if you run a pay per click campaign and you put in, divorce attorney Conshohocken, as one of the keyword on which you were willing to bid, so that your website comes up, you can see the traffic, you can see how many people searched it, you can see how many people clicked on it to come to your website. The beauty of that is they’ll give you every single click and every single search on that, ’cause you’re praying for it, right? And that can prop up your organic to maybe change your keyword strategy. Every page should have a keyword strategy, and you know, a page say, divorce attorney Conshohocken, if that’s one of your practices, make the divorce practice page about that and have that be your keyword phrase. But if you find out that in pay per click, that divorce attorney Conshohocken is like fifth, or sixth, or seventh popular, and it’s more like divorce attorney Philadelphia suburbs or something like that, then you might wanna change your keyword strategy for that particular page, and then you would go in and change the title tag, change some of the text on the page. So really, both work with each other, so.

Dan:

Yeah, that’s a great point, Jason, of how we can kind of use the two strategies in tandem. And I will say, it’s important to note that paid search cannot directly impact your organic search ranking. It’s not like if you do X, Y, and Z in paid search, then you get points for rankings in organic search. But you can do what Jason’s strategy said, what he just talked about. And then as well, another way that you can use paid and organic, kind of in tandem, is if Martin-Lisi Law Firm wants to rank for that divorce term, and we want to own that search engine result page, you know, we will bid on that term so that our firm shows up in the ads, but then we will also try and get to that number one spot so that we’re kind of saturating the search engine result page, which theoretically entices people more to click on us than our competitors, so to speak.

Taryn:

So there is a way that they work together, but it’s not like you need to purchase?

Dan:

Correct.

Taryn:

paid search to rank at all.

Dan:

That’s correct.

Taryn:

Google doesn’t weigh that or consider that when they’re looking at your pages that you are looking to rank organically for.

Dan:

Yes, S.E.O. is completely free, pay per click is not.

Taryn:

Gotcha. Well, and you’ve talked a little bit about the expense of terms related to law firms, and you know, the legal space in general for pay per click and for paid search, however you wanna refer to that. So we have a question here that we get a lot, and you know, can a medium size law firm really rank on the first page on Google? Like how expensive are we talking? You know, is that something that’s outta reach for smaller firms? Or is that something that is doable with the right strategy?

Jason:

I’ll start off on this one, Dan. So the answer is yes, you can get on the first page. I will tell you that if we’re talking strictly pay per click, the search engine marketing part, you can get on the first page if you’re willing to bid, you know, the amount, okay? And by bid the amount, is you bid on individual keyword terms, divorce attorney Conshohocken. So I will tell you that divorce attorney is going to be an extraordinarily expensive, because that is national, okay? It doesn’t have any location, okay? And as you go down in geography, in the terms, it becomes less expensive, obviously, because there aren’t as many, by definition, divorce attorneys in Conshohocken as there are in the entire United States. So it’s gonna be less valuable, so the bids will be lower. So you can get on the first page in the pay per click realm by you know, limiting the geography in the terms. But Google also has systems where you can limit geography of where your ads are shown. Google knows where you are, you know, unless you do some really neat tricks to throw it off.

But so Google knows that, you know, Dan for instance, is sitting in Conshohocken, I happen to be sitting in West Chester, and that’s about 20 miles away from Conshohocken. If you put in divorce attorney near me, I would get West Chester, Pennsylvania results. If he did it, he’d get Conshohocken-based results. And therefore, if the Martin-Lisi firm had the geography set inside of Google’s AdWords system, it would not show that ad in Westchester, it would show it in Conshohocken, okay? So that’s another way of doing it, by tightening down on it. So many times our company has taken over pay per click accounts from, you know, another provider, and we’ve looked at it and we just say, oh, my word, these are the broadest terms in the world, like searching for lawyer, right? You know, and there’s a million different types of lawyers, they’re searching way too broadly, and it’s just wasting, wasting money.

So you wanna be as tight as possible, and you know, if you can’t spend your budget in a day, say it’s $100 day, that’s $3,000 a month. If you can’t spend your budget with those limited terms, then expand the geography, expand the terms, make the terms more general. What you want to try to do is exhaust your budget every day, not too fast, okay, but just really kind of get on the mark, and Google does it by day. So it won’t spend technically more than $100 a day, if you’re daily, it might go to like $105, and then the next day might be $95 to kind of even things out. But anyway, I’ll send it over to Dan on the S.E.O. part, how a medium size firm could get on the first page organically.

Dan:

Yeah, exactly. So Jason did a great job illustrating how you can do it with P.P.C. The S.E.O. aspect of it, yes, a medium-size law firm can absolutely rank on the first page for a keyword. The key is you need to be very intentional with the keywords that you are targeting. You certainly would have no shot of ranking for just the term, law firm, right? There’s a billion law firms across the United States and globally, it would just be nearly impossible to rank for that. However, if you are, in our example that we’ve been talking about, trying to rank for divorce lawyer in Conshohocken, if you craft your content to speak to that keyword, you certainly do have a chance of ranking for that. And there’s also tangentially related keywords to that main keyword of divorce attorney that you can also target. So Jason talked about shrinking your pay per click kind of zip code targeting, it’s kind of the same idea, you want to shrink, or we wanna be a little bit more granular in terms of selecting the keywords that you’re trying to target, rather than going way too general.

Jason:

And that especially is relevant in Pennsylvania, there’s a lot of practitioners, and we are in Southeast Pennsylvania here, a lot of practitioners that are not gonna take a divorce case in Pittsburgh, you know, ’cause it’s six hours away by car, you know, they’re just not going to. So bidding on divorce attorney Pennsylvania, unless you have a statewide, you know, type thing, wouldn’t make sense. Delaware, where I grew up, much smaller state, you know, you can do Delaware because you can get to the other side of Delaware in less than an hour, you know, and that type of thing, that might be more relevant. But you know, by definition, lawyers can only practice within the state where they are barred, okay? And that’s the one thing, so if you’re not barred in Delaware, doesn’t make any sense to have your ad show in Delaware. I mean, it makes a little sense on the margins because there may be people looking who have something in Pennsylvania, but that’s an edge case. They might not want to go, again, across the state to practice for, you know, something that isn’t gonna bring them very much revenue. So you can save budget, save time, and save aggravation by really knowing, from where do I want to get my clients, so.

Taryn:

Well Jason, you talked about results when there was a lot of information that was known about the searcher, but we have had somebody ask a question, and they wanna know what happens if you were browsing in an incognito window?

Jason:

Oh the incognito window, my favorite thing. The incognito window, in Safari, it’s called a private browsing window, that is a way of searching with, let me back up. Google looks at your search history and it has cookies on your machine, it has different things that tell things about your IP address and other different types of things, and it will change your results based on that. So for instance, let’s say people in the Martin-Lisi Law Firm are searching, divorce lawyer Conshohocken, and they click on a competitor, just to see what their website is about, and continue to click on the competitors and everything. You’re teaching Google to say, oh, this IP address, this person, based on the cookies, finds these other results more relevant, so we’re gonna put those above. So a person in the next office, you know, in you know, a different law firm, five feet away could get different search results on exactly the same search term. An incognito window basically makes it as if none of that ever happened, okay? It’s a fresh browser window. And I use it quite a bit to do fresh searches to see how the world sees that search term, without regard to, you know, my past search history, my location, that type of a thing. It’s sort of starting with a, you know, like a brand new laptop or something like that. Dan, anything you wanted to add?

Dan:

Yeah, no, I think you hit it right on the head there. Like Jason said, Google knows a lot of things about you when you’re browsing, whether you be using, you know, Firefox, Safari, or whatever, especially so if you’re using Google Chrome, which I know a lot of people do. So yeah, an incognito is basically just a fresh slate. I also use it in the same way that Jason does just to kind of get a view of, you know, what the search results might look like without any of my recent searches in there, or cookies, or anything like that.

Taryn:

Well, we are running just past one o’clock, and I don’t wanna keep people too long, but I know that there’s a few things that people can do kind of as an introduction to getting started in S.E.O. And so I want our final question to be this one that was submitted, what are title tags and meta descriptions, and how do they affect search engine rankings? I know you’ve touched on this a little bit, but for our final question, let’s tackle these things, which are pretty standard terms that everyone seems to know in the world of search engine marketing. And while we’re talking about title tags and meta descriptions, let’s also put in H1, H2, and H3, and other header tags.

Dan:

Alright, so if we were to do a Google search right now, and it would come up with the ads at the top and then your traditional blue links with the descriptions underneath. So at the most basic level, the blue link, the actual link, is what is called the title tag. So that might be the Martin-Lisi Law Firm Conshohocken, Pennsylvania, right? That might be what the title reads. The description underneath of that is what’s called the meta description. Now there are many ways to kind of edit these, and it’s not terribly difficult, and you don’t need a lot of fancy, expensive tools. You can certainly do it at the most manual level when you are posting an item through your content management system, we use WordPress, so I’ll use WordPress as an example. So when you go to post your blog or post your service page through WordPress, in there it will allow you to control what the title tag looks like and what the meta description looks like. We also happen to recommend and like a lot a plugin called Yoast S.E.O. for WordPress. That gives you a little bit more control, adds some flavor to things in terms of being able to target a keyword and keyword distribution, but again, it gives you the opportunity to edit those when you are posting items, and you can also bulk edit your whole website for meta descriptions and meta titles.

Jason:

And you may ask, okay, if I don’t log into WordPress, how can I see my title and description tags. Many people may be familiar, you can view the source of a webpage. Usually it’s a right click on a area of, you know, like a, you know, a non graphic area of the website, and choose view source. Or you can go up into one of the menus and you can choose view source. And then you can look for, you know, it’s chevron title chevron, or like less than, you know, title and then greater than symbol in there. You look, and your title tag is in the HTML code. There’s a lot of gobbledygook and you’ll see CSS and all that other different stuff. You look in there and then you can see that, and you can see it for any website.

Dan:

You can also see your description tag in there. And you had mentioned H1 tags, that’s also something you can look for, you know, less than H1, and then there’s stuff after it. And then you look for that and then you can see what the H1. H1 refers to header 1, H2 is header 2, 3, 4, that type of thing. Those are keys that Google looks to to try to figure out what a page is about. The title tag should be about what the page is about. And if there’s a disconnect, you’ll probably get penalized. Google also thinks, well, a heading on a page is gonna be so important that it’s probably referring to what is on the page, so it looks at the H1 tags and the H2 tags. So many website builders don’t take advantage of the H1 and H2 tags as putting keywords in those tags. There’s still others that super abuse that, and they’ll put a whole paragraph in an H1 tag. So you really need to have a balance. There’s plenty of resources out there where you can learn this, you know, and then I happen to know of a company that can do this for your firm. But anyway, yeah, there’s a lot to know, and you know, you can go anywhere from basic to highly, highly granular, like Dan does on a daily basis, so.

Taryn:

Well, and thank you both for answering the technical part of that. I would be remise if I didn’t throw in there, especially with title tags and meta descriptions, yes, well, not so much with meta descriptions, but title tags, you know, there’s a lot of things that will get you on that first page or that second page, or wherever you are showing up in the search results, or wherever your ad is showing up. But the title tag and the meta description, I like to say is a little bit like your elevator speech. Like you have a very limited amount of information and you know, you’re not the only search result, there’s at least, you know, 10 or however many, depending on ads and everything, there, you have competition for where people are going to click and where they’re gonna go next, and your title tags and your meta descriptions, while they should be optimized so you show up on that page, also need to sell to your searchers what they’re going to get, you know, is it what they’re looking for? Is it worth clicking on?

So don’t forget, that once you get to that page, your job isn’t done, you still need to convince people to go and actually click on your ad and, you know, consume information on your site and for it to align right, so that way they don’t just bounce as soon as they get there, but they’re looking at multiple pages and all those things. So don’t just stuff it for keywords, also think about how people are consuming that and how you can motivate them or drive them to actually visit your website. Well, I want to thank Dan and Jason, this was a really in-depth discussion, it went much longer than I thought that it would, but that’s a good thing, because you know, like I said earlier, I know that there are a lot of questions around S.E.O., S.E.M., the strategy behind it, what’s changing, what’s new, you know how to implement it, do I need to do all the things? So thank you for really taking a deep dive on this and really answering a lot of our questions. I appreciate that.

Up next from LISI, you will see us, I think it’s next week, releasing the next installment of our One More Thing podcast, and Kristyn Brophy is hosting that episode, so make sure you check it out. Thanks everybody for joining us and have a great weekend.